Study Menachot folio 81A with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
R' Yehuda HaNasi explains why: And does one separate an animal as a leftover ab initio?
The Talmud suggests another solution: R' Yitzḥak bar Shmuel bar Marta was sitting before Rav Naḥman, and he was sitting and saying: And let him bring another animal with loaves and let him say: If this animal that is extant is the substitute, then let this be the thanks offering and these its loave
Rav Naḥman said to him: Answer me, my Master: The halakha is that one who separates a substitute is liable to receive 40 lashes on his shoulders, and yet you say it is fit to separate a substitute ab initio?
The Talmud relates that Rav Ila took ill, and Abaye and the rabbis went to visit him, and they were sitting and saying: If one accepts the ruling of R' Yoḥanan, who said: If the loaves of the thanks offering were within Jerusalem, i.e., the area of consumption of a thanks offering and its loaves,
The Talmud responds: This too is not a valid remedy, because there are 4 loaves of the 40 that one must wave. How would he perform the mitzva of waving them? Shall he wave them outside the Temple courtyard? He may not, since “waved for a wave offering before YHWH” (Leviticus 7:30) is written in the